Danielle McBride started her career in Audio Post Production at Medallion PFA in Toronto after graduating OIART in 1996, and has remained busy ever since as a freelance dialogue editor. Nominated for a Gemini Award in 1999 for “Best Sound Editing in a Dramatic Program or Series” for the drama “Milgaard”, Danielle has most recently been the dialogue editor for the enduringly popular show Degrassi: The Next Generation, now in its fourth season. Interestingly enough, the Degrassi sound team also includes OIART Alumni Chris Schofield (97-98) (boom operator), and Paul Williamson (85-86) (sound effects and Foley mixer).

OIART’s Bob Breen interviews Danielle about some of the rewards and challenges of working in the changing audio post industry in Toronto:

Hello Danielle, thank you for taking the time to do this interview. I understand you’re busy these days. What are you working on?
Right now I'm working on two series. Degrassi: The Next Generation and Instant Star. Both of these shows are produced by Epitome Pictures and I alternate between episodes of each.

You were a student the same year I was, 1995/96. What made you want to go?
I had just graduated from university and was looking for a technical program that could lead to employment in the film and television industry. Since I was already living in London someone recommended that I check out OIART. Not only would I not have to move to another city but I would be taking one of the best and most comprehensive programs in the country. The one year program also appealed to me because after a 4 year university degree I wanted to be out working as soon as possible.

What was your background? You had done some theatre work before OIART hadn't you? (I seem to remember you went to Western?)
I have an Honours Degree in Music Education from the University of Western Ontario. While at Western I became interested in working with the technical aspects of sound. I started as a recording technician for the Music Faculty and then began sound designing for theatre. By the time I started at OIART I had done the sound design for almost a dozen amateur and semi-professional theatre productions in the London area.

I remember at the time you were one of the few students who was really keen to do post production. Most of us were music heads. Your project at the end of the year was designing all-new sound for a scene from the Brandon Lee movie “The Crow.” How long had a sound for picture career been a dream for you?
Probably about a year. I had been searching for a career working with sound in any capacity but I'd begun to realize the vibrancy of the Canadian film and television industry and felt I would have an easier time finding work there then in professional theatre or in a recording studio.

What excites you about that kind of work?
Honestly I'd be happy doing anything with sound. But I was drawn to sound for picture for two big reasons. First, it feels more multi-dimensional to me. I like working with the visual element. And I find it more collaborative than radio and recording work. But secondly I wanted a job. After studying classical music for so long I was determined to focus on an area of study that would lead to steady employment.

What’s your favourite memory of OIART?
I loved being at OIART but what I remember most is the hard work. I was very driven to learn as much as possible in as short a time as possible. But I loved being in the studio and just doing the hands on stuff. I spend most of my day editing at a computer now and I miss running cable.

Tell us a bit about finding your first job; did you have to “pound the pavement” as they say?
Yes I pounded the pavement. I'm originally from Toronto and I knew that I would be coming back here to find work after graduation. I did about a week of research in the London library before I left and then I started at Queen and Yonge with a ripped out page from the yellow pages listing recording studios. I called and dropped off resumes all over town.

How did you land the job at Medallion PFA? Did you have several interviews?
I got the job at Medallion PFA the way that everyone finds work in this industry. Pure luck. I had called a film company that had produced a film that I liked and they gave me the name of their sound editor. He then gave me 5 names of key re-recording mixers in the city. Only two of them would talk to me. I dropped off a resume at Medallion PFA because the nicest sounding guy worked there. Then I called him until he actually found and read my resume. He then told them to interview me. I went to one interview and was hired the next day.

Did you know why you got the job over other candidates?
Pro Tools experience. OIART had just started a summer program teaching Pro Tools. It wasn't even part of the regular program at that time. I listed it as my first skill. I was the only applicant they had with Pro Tools experience so I stood out.

Do you figure at the time being a woman looking for a male-dominated position made any difference? Did it add to the challenge?
Yes. I found out later that they took my resume around the audio department asking the guys there if they'd mind working with a woman. Fortunately no one said they would have a problem. But I was warned in my interview that the men from other departments would be hostile to me at first. And they were.

As an aside, once I entered the OIART program it became very clear to me that I would be working in a male dominated environment. So I used that time to get learn not just the gear but how to work with men. That turned out to be a good idea because I worked at Medallion PFA for 3 years before I worked with another woman.

At OIART, we have just instituted the Jenn Lewis Scholarship to encourage more women to get into the industry. In San Francisco, there is a group of female engineers who have started www.womensaudiomission.org for similar reasons. One might argue that it’s a form of “reverse discrimination,” singling out one group for a certain kind of treatment that could be viewed as preferential. We concluded such steps are helpful to try to make talented women understand that they can be not only included in the industry, but very successful. What do you think of that kind of thing?
I think it's a great idea. It's really true that it's more difficult for women to get in the door. And once you're in you have to work very hard to earn respect. It takes awhile before it becomes about the work and not who's doing the work. Having a scholarship shows potential female applicants that the school supports the inclusion of women. Men sometimes fail to realize how alienated women can be made to feel in a technical environment.

Speaking of success, how did you feel about the Gemini award nomination in 1999?
I was overwhelmed. I hadn't been working long as a sound editing assistant and therefore really wasn't aware of what an honour it truly was. It's also unusual for assistants to be included in the nominations so I was exceedingly fortunate.

Does a nomination like that make a noticeable difference in your career?
Not really. The sound editing community in Toronto is so small.
It's more a “who you know” thing than a “what you've done” thing.

Can you trace your evolution as an engineer from when you started at PFA? What were your duties at first and how did they progress?
I started in the audio post sync and transfer department where I worked for two years. We worked with every possible audio, video and timecode format and had to know how to transfer between them. My time at OIART really gave me an advantage over others but it was still a year before I felt truly comfortable with the various projects we had coming in. We were basically problem solvers and every situation was unique.

From there I moved to working as a dialogue editing assistant. This involved conforming shows, supervising ADR recording sessions and prepping for the editors. Again this is mostly a problem-solving position. You have to have a solid knowledge of film and audio to sort through the various elements that make up a project.

I was an assistant for a year before I got my own series. And I've been working as a dialogue editor ever since. That's about 5 ½ years. As an editor I clean up the tracks recorded on set and cut the ADR that's been recorded. Both tasks are labour intensive. It takes a couple of days to work through a 1/2 hour show and about a week to do the average hour long episode.

The sound and picture divisions at Medallion eventually split up and were later sold. This created quite an upheaval in the post industry in Toronto and things really haven’t been the same since have they? How did the turbulence affect you?
It's ironic but being forced into working freelance allowed me to ride out the changes. So many employees were caught up in downsizing but being freelance allowed me to keep my association with Medallion's management without actually costing them anything.

Although it’s not really correct that Medallion PFA was split up. Technicolour has maintained the film lab in the old Peter Street location. And the sound and video departments moved into the new location on Ontario Street.

Most of the big Toronto audio post houses eventually amalgamated and lots of facilities closed up. Who’s left?
Technicolour (formally Medallion PFA, DAVE, Command Post, Manta Eastern and Toybox) and Deluxe Toronto are the big ones. There are also several smaller companies like Magnetic North and Casablanca.

How did you adapt? You had to join the Directors’ Guild of Canada to go freelance, correct?
Yes, the Director's Guild of Canada and the Canadian Film and Television Producers Association signed an agreement stating that all productions that used Guild members at the production stage would have to use Guild sound editors in post production. This directly affects over 90% of all Canadian productions, meaning that if I wanted to continue working I had to join the Guild. This happened in 2002 and was incredibly frustrating at the time.

You won a Directors’ Guild Award recently didn’t you? I remember reading a trade paper with a list of winners and immediately went hunting for your name because I figured it would be in there! Nice someone has faith in you eh?
We've won the best team award for 3 years running. I'm very proud to be working with the Degrassi: the Next Generation team.

Tell us a little bit about the unions involved in the film and television industry. I’m sure anyone reading this knows little or nothing about them. No offense to you if you’re reading this and you do!
There's the Director's Guild of Canada for Directors, Accountants, Picture Editors, and Sound Editors.

Nabet : they " build and dress the set, transport people and equipment to location, light the shot, lay the track, push the dolly, manage the props, dress and makeup the actors, manage the special effects, record the sound," That’s from their website.

IATSE : which is "International Alliance of Theatrical Stage Employees, Moving Picture Technicians, Artists and Allied Crafts of the United States, its Territories and Canada" Again from the website.

I don't know the difference between the two. But the Degrassi crew seems to be Nabet.

Actra : This is the actor's union. I deal more with Actra because I have to be aware of their regulations when I supervise ADR and loop group sessions.

How important is it to join a union if you want to work in the Motion Picture and Television industry? What are the benefits?
It really depends on the job you want. Right now sound editors have to belong to the DGC to work on larger projects. But you can find work on the independents that doesn't require that you be a member of the guild. Re-recording mixers, Foley artists, ADR and Foley recordists, and audio post sync are all non union. The boom ops I know are Nabet members. But some of the older on-set sound recordists are non-union.

The best thing to do is talk to someone who is already doing what you want to do. They will let you know what's required.

How hard is it to join? What do they ask for?
The DGC is fairly easy to join as a trainee. You just need references and money. I think its $500 to join and another $1000 once you step up from trainee. But it's tough working your way up into positions that actually will pay you. The biggest problem with moving up in the DGC is that as a guild they aren't able to establish minimum staffing requirements, meaning that a project isn't required to hire an assistant or a trainee. And often they don't. You have to be incredibly persistent and willing to work 12-hour shifts often overnight. But you should expect that regardless if you join a guild or not. I worked evenings and overnights for 5 years while on staff at Medallion PFA.

Nabet and Iatse seem to operate like any other type of union. You also need references to join. I'm not sure how much they request in fees.

What does the industry look like in Toronto right now? We got an email from you a few months back saying things were getting tougher for film people there.
It's tough. The on-set people seem to have it worse right now. They relied more heavily on the American productions. Post-production is surviving a bit better because the Americans wouldn't post up here. So our work has traditionally been on Canadian productions. But it's still pretty desperate. Half the people I used to work with have either left or been forced out of the industry.

When I lived in Los Angeles I saw bumper stickers encouraging film producers NOT to send work to Canada – which at the time they did anyway. Has the falling almighty US Dollar made things less attractive here?
It's not just the dollar. It's the anti-Canadian sentiment and SARS as well. It's very unlikely that the Canadian film industry will see the Americans come back the way they were in the '90s.

This is a topic close to Ah-nolds heart too (I’m referring to California Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger folks. You know, I just did a Google search on the guy, 'cause who is going to know how to spell is last name, and my hunch was right — when you search the first name Arnold his website comes back on top of the results. It's www.schwarzenegger.com if you care). When he got elected did that dominate the industry talk here?
To a point yes, but it's not just him. The Americans are really upset about run-away productions. Truthfully, Hollywood loses more to New York and the rest of the States then they do us.

So do you work at home now or have an office?
I have an edit suite at Technicolor that Epitome Pictures rents for me to do Degrassi and Instant Star. And I have a Pro Tools Mbox based home system for when I have to work weekends and late nights.

What other gear do you have?
In my Technicolor edit suite I have a G4 867 single processor running OS. 9.2.2 and Protools 5.1.3, a Mackie 1604, a miro-motion video card for digital picture, and an SVHS machine for picture load in. But I do have a USD so I can lock it up when necessary, and a Sony PCM 7030 dat machine and a Tascam DA98 that I barely use. I can't remember what I monitor on but it's not unusual to see NS-10's in edit suites.

At home I run the Mbox with a G4 800 with OS 10.3 and Protools 6.4 LE. I run my picture on a separate monitor feeding off of my built in video card. I have Yorkville speakers and an old Mackie 1202.

Sometimes graduating students are tempted to buy gear and set up a home studio, then look for work. What do you think is the best way to get into audio post?
Any way that you can. But I do suggest that you only buy what a job requires. If you are working for a post house you won't need any of your own gear.

Seems to me you have to make some industry connections first to get on the radar for projects. You must be there - you have to work through the Christmas season this year! What do you think the most important factor in staying busy and valuable is once you’ve established yourself?
You must have a solid work ethic and an ability to get along with the people you work with. And you have to network like crazy. It’s definitely out of sight out of mind.

Tell us a little bit about Degrassi, as the dialogue editor, what does a typical day for you look like?
A typical day for me starts around 9:30. I sit down at my computer and edit to around 1pm. I generally take an hour lunch and then continue editing until around 7 or 8 o'clock. Once or twice a week I'll stop and spot new episodes for ADR or loop group. Or if I have ADR sessions being recorded, then I monitor the progress and step in to supervise if there are difficult sequences. The only other thing I stop for is episode playback. This is when the producers come in to review a completed episode. Generally this takes a couple of hours and represents the only official break from editing that I get in an average work week.

How does the video get to you? How does it get into your system?
The video comes to me on a SVHS tape. I load this tape onto my system through a miro motion card using Adobe Premier.

Do you have to clean up a lot of dialogue from the set, or is there a lot of ADR (replaced dialogue recorded later in a studio – stands for Automatic Dialogue Replacement. I understand Ozzy Ozbourne is TERRIBLE at this). Do you record ADR yourself sometimes?
Every show is unique in terms of replacing dialogue. Usually I spend most of my time working on the original dialogue but that balance can tip very easily if shooting conditions were tough on a particular show. Overall, Degrassi averaged a need of 5 to 10 percent replacement whereas Instant Star needed much more. Several times we had to replace well over half the dialogue and I would find myself working several days on the ADR alone.

What is your output format? What does your employer expect from you when you’re finished a project?
I output a Protools session and cue sheets to the mixers. They then create the various versions and formats of the full mix that Epitome requires.

Do certain technical challenges come up repeatedly, or are things pretty smooth after you’ve worked on a show as long as you have on “Degrassi”?
Large ADR counts are the biggest challenges I face. I'm given the same amount of time whether there are 10 lines of ADR or 230 lines of ADR. I can cut 10 - 15 lines of ADR an hour. So trying to find an additional 20 hours when I only have 4 days can be very stressful. I spend a lot of time mapping out schedules that anticipate these types of problems.

The two fellows that work on Degrassi with you; you said in a recent email that you’d just discovered they were OIART grads… did you work closely with them and it only just recently came up? “Oh really? I went there too!” …that kind of thing?
I work very closely with Paul Williamson who is one of the re-recording mixers. We've worked together on projects since I graduated in 1996. I introduced myself as a fellow OIART grad soon after I started working at Medallion PFA.

I'm rarely on set but Chris Schofield (the Degrassi/Instant Star Boom op) was giving me a ride home last summer and he said something that sounded distinctly like an OIART-ism. I think he was talking about signal flow, so I asked him where he went to school and of course it was OIART.

How’s OIART’s reputation in the industry these days from your point of view? When we graduated, I think most people hadn’t heard of the school. That’s changing isn’t it?
Honestly, I don't really know. There is a very high regard amongst OIART graduates for other OIART graduates but I'm not sure if that extends more generally in the industry.

I think it’s fair to say that you got the full educational value out of your time here, but I’m not sure everybody does in every single case. Even though the course is highly structured, how each student approaches studying and what they do with their free time makes a massive difference.What’s the best piece of advice you could give to someone taking the program?
Use every second that you are there to it's fullest. I did. And I apply that concept to my work today. It's the only way to advance. So you can consider it good practice for the real world.

What would you say to someone thinking of taking the program? Has OIART made a difference in your life?
Yes, absolutely. I would never have had the confidence to apply for work in this industry without OIART. And I would never have had the skills to stay in it either.

What are your plans for the future?
I hope to weather the transitional time that the Toronto film and television industry is experiencing right now. I would consider myself extremely fortunate to be doing this 5 years from now.

Thanks for your time Danielle! Continued success!